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AAR = Devs Completely Shield Biased

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Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 396	Posted - 2013.02.24 22:17:00 - [1] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Deacon Abox wrote: But what can I say. Some of you downplay the importance of available low slots. Damage mods, nanos (in synch with rigs for speed and agility which can't be fit on an armor tank because they nerf armor hp), lots of things can go in low slots that are valuable and armor ships would love to fit. You really can't just say but but my mids are more important than your lows and you get more lows so it's fair to compare as equal - one XLSB to 2 LAR - and ignore the fitting costs and slot subtraction inequity. And you downplay the importance of mid slots. Especially given how rare they are. -Liang Which is why we would rather fit an ASB there than a cap boosters. Active armor does not have any spare mids because they are used for boosters.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 398	Posted - 2013.02.25 06:40:00 - [2] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Hannott Thanos wrote: Which is why we would rather fit an ASB there than a cap boosters. Active armor does not have any spare mids because they are used for boosters. You seem to think that only one slot is required for tackle, so that means you have MWD/Point/Cap Booster. Seems like there's lots of armor tanking ships with 4 mids... -Liang You're a bit defensive but ok, I would be too if I got all the ** you get in this thread. Just to say, I fly shield way more than armor, and I appreciate the utility I can use like TD when I do, but that is always passive armor. You know this already, but passive is not the same story as active. Midslots are not more worth than a lowslot when comparing shield and armor ships, simply because a shield ship will never have less than 5 mids, excluding frigates. You can still get full tackle and the biggest tank of all BC's on a Drake for example. In the case of the Myrmidon, you would think that 5 mids would give great utility. Well damn, it doesn't at all. You get full tackle, which is great, but then the two other mids have to be used up for 2 medium sized cap boosters (you can't use your 2 small boosters in your example above, they won't run the tank at all) while every lowslot are used up for tanking. So the problem here is clearly that on active tanking** armor is behind simply because we have to use up as many midslots as shield tank has too, just in the form of boosters, while still using up every lowslot too, while the shield tankers can use them for damage and still have as good or better tank. Just to finish off on this, I'm not a butthurt armortanker, I can soon fly any sub BS ship, but I would like more variety, but as it is now, you either go shield buffer, armor buffer or ASB. EDIT: Also, the argument that an AAR uses nanite paste for fuel so you can carry a lot more reloads than an ASB, does not hold any water. Why? because we also have to carry our cargo full with navy 800's to keep the AAR and the two other reps running.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 398	Posted - 2013.02.25 07:26:00 - [3] - Quote The fact that we are discussing the balance on a myrm is stupid. It's an armor bonused hull ffs, and still we can't agree on whether ASB og AAR is the better form of tank. Lets put the same logic on a Cyclone, then lets have a talk...
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 398	Posted - 2013.02.25 08:03:00 - [4] - Quote Well, I do agree that it is better as an armor tanker. My problem is that it takes 8 slots to be better than a 2 slot shield tank. On my phone atm, I'll eft up when I get to work. Edit, I also have a problem with the fact that those 2 slots cant be used for utility because of boosters.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 398	Posted - 2013.02.25 08:42:00 - [5] - Quote [Hurricane, asb] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Co-Processor II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M [empty high slot] Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 523 dps 35.8k EHP 591 dps tank 826 dps tank OL Slots used for tank: 2 mids [Hurricane, aar] Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M [empty high slot] Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Nanobot Accelerator I 333 dps 36k EHP 595 dps tank 740 dps tank OL Slots used for tank: 6 lows, 2 mids
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 398	Posted - 2013.02.25 08:45:00 - [6] - Quote I honestly can't say which one I like better. In a 1v1 the armor fit will win when asb hits reload, but in a small fast gang I might want the dps on the shield fit
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 401	Posted - 2013.02.25 21:57:00 - [7] - Quote @Roime. Armor tanks (active ones) does not really have the advantage of mid slots. You have 3 or maybe if you are lucky 4 mid slots. Guess what at least one or two of those slots have to be used for. Medium Electrochemical Cap Booster. Passive armor > mid slot ewar Active armor > Cap boosters
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 401	Posted - 2013.02.26 08:46:00 - [8] - Quote It doesn't really matter how fast either run out of charges. What matters is if you can tank the dps incoming. With slow cycles you have to run them continuously and maybe even overload to keep up. With fast cycle times, you don't even have to do that. You do one cycle, then wait until you take enough damage, then cycle again. This is where shield shines bright and armor struggles behind. This is why we fit 3 reps and micromanage them to counter the dps, while shield can just turn off auto-repeat and hit the asb when needed. As I concluded before, the tanking in itself is more or less balanced. I would f.ex rather fly a triple rep Hurricane solo than a ASB one, because the dps tanked are about the same, but armor runs for longer. It's a bit sad that in the nature of active armor tanking you get all the microing. Cap, overloading boosters, overloading reps, managing charges in the new AAR, all this together with actually fighting. It gets overwhelming fast.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 401	Posted - 2013.02.26 09:27:00 - [9] - Quote It bothers me a bit that the Myrmidon is impossible to fit unless you have perfect skills and then some. In a triple rep setup I had to fit the dual 150 mm railguns, and that's even when we now have one less highslot. Need that AWU 5 to fit dual 180's. I really appreciate the effort you put into this discussion Liang.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 426	Posted - 2013.03.03 21:44:00 - [10] - Quote It's a stupid argument that you can carry more nanite paste. Why? Because you can only carry so many navy 800's to fill your 2 medium cap boosters, so you are just as limited as the ASB

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